Post Due Weds. 4/6

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Post Due Weds. 4/6

Post by Admin on Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:08 am

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“Maybe…maybe there is a beast…maybe it’s only us….”
– Simon, Lord of the Flies, Chapter 5, Page 80

Summary: In Chapters 4 and 5, we see Jack go off the deep end. The boys kill a pig and suddenly they don’t seem like innocent little boys anymore. They almost get rescued, but then they don’t. Ralph’s leadership is challenged. Piggy is still getting bullied. There might be a beast, and it comes out of the water?
Or is the beast in all of us?



In your first post, please answer and discuss the following prompt:


Here is a quote to start us off: “Simon became inarticulate in his effort to express mankind’s essential illness.” (P. 80)

Like a Star @ heaven  Recall how the boys acted when they first arrived on the island. How has the boys’ behavior on the island changed since they’ve been on the island, and how do they act now? Is there a word to describe the new “behavior”? Why do you think they have changed? Does the change only have to do with what Simon calls “mankind’s essential illness”, or do you think it is purely outside factors that have caused the boys to start acting this way? Finally, how come some of them are changing while others not so much?





Again, remember to use specific examples and quotes from the book. The posts are graded out of 25 points.

Also, don’t forget to reply to your classmates! Check in every once in a while to see if someone has responded to your posts.

Everything is due by 6:30 AM.


Last edited by Admin on Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Post Due Weds. 4/6

Post by AndyDufresneCrawledThru on Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:28 pm

ADCT
In the beginning of the book they were less mature and more Very Happy  

as told by Piggy when he screams about their current situation.

"They're hopeless. The older ones aren't much better. D' you see?

All day I've been working with Simon. No one else. They're off bathing, or

eating, or playing" -Piggy pig  Chapter 3, p45

and  now they act less playful and more violent which can be implied when

they chant "Kill the pig. Cut her throat. Bash her in" -Chapter 4,p69

Their new behavior could be described as malevolent.

I believed they have changed because of their newfound emotion: bloodlust.

The change has to do with man's primitive and tribal past not "mankind's essential illness". Simon is old enough to know it is immoral but not enough to understand what it actually is. Outside factors also have a lot to do with their change because they are away from well-developed society and have been sent into the wilderness with nothing to truly manage and remind of them of civilization.

The change varies because the hunters are more involved which causes them to succumb to bloodlust first and then the kids were mostly playing but they go along with the hunters because they don't know better and last but finally Piggy doesn't change because he is the only one that is actually intelligent, Ralph has responsibilities, and Simon.....has a lot of logic?

So basically they went from  lol!    to      What a Face   because of a single pig and it's not a coincidence that Piggy is named Piggy in a book where the main source of nourishment comes from pigs they have killed.
             Foreshadowing Book's Events    No


Last edited by AndyDufresneCrawledThru on Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post 1

Post by Guest on Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:05 pm

I think that they are changing, because they realize that is the only way they can survive. The ones that are not are unintelligent and don't have much meaning to the book, story. I think that they will be better off changing, because then Ralph can direct them in a good direction. I believe that their changed way will turn them into a group and give them a better to live and get rescued. I also think they will start listening to Piggy more and less Jack. They are moving into the right direction for survival. I also believe that the disease Simon is identifying is due to his age and little understanding of the island. They are going from little, innocent kids into hunters. afro

Quote: "Come on! Ill creep up and stab" (58). This quote shows that the kids are becoming violent and are realizing what they need to do to live.



Quote: "And I work all day with nothing but Simon and you come back and don't even notice the huts" (49)! This quote explains the frustration of Ralph with everyone fooling around, while him and Simon are working.


Last edited by melrosestudent123 on Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : No Quotes)

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AGHHHHHHH

Post by waiwan on Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:54 pm

I think the boys are becoming savages and losing alot of their humanity cyclops and that they will become more like animals as time goes on. Piggy seems to be the only one that isnt turning into a berserk warrior-esk animal.
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Re: Post Due Weds. 4/6

Post by wall9656 on Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:20 pm

I think they changed rapidly though out the chapters and they are starting to do more things that they would not have done at the begging of the story. They are also treating people more differently then they did when the got there.

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Re: Post Due Weds. 4/6

Post by Piggy is my hero on Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:54 pm

Waiwan they aren't becoming savages so much they are becoming stupid and making bigger mistakes as they grow in survival. Them killing animals is just to survive and get meat, as well everything they do is for the better. pigpigpigpigpig
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my response

Post by ABCD1234 on Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:05 pm

As the book progresses, the boys are constantly changing. In the beginning they had planned a well-organized system for living, and what they imagined was it being almost "fun." Now the boys are doing things they never imagined doing and are really understanding just how difficult it is. It is easy to tell that nature is taking its toll on the boys mentally, because now they seem to be loosing what they were taught in a real civilization. It is coincidental that in the beginning they were described as smart, young, preppy school boys, and now some people within the group feel as though they are "beasts." It will be interesting to see how they turn out in the very end!

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Re: Post Due Weds. 4/6

Post by ABCD1234 on Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:12 pm

"The world, that understandable and lawful world, was slipping away." - Ralph

This quote pretty much represents that the boys are realizing that being stuck on this island is like being stuck on a different planet.

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Re: Post Due Weds. 4/6

Post by Lungfish on Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:10 pm

The boys are turning into more of a primal version of humans, painting their faces, killing without remorse, and acting on impulse. This form of thinking is what I think Piggy refers to as "Mankind's essential illness", since it contradicts what modern society would act like, but also is essential for long term survival. Ralph is beginning to understand that survival means work, and that he needs to change how he leads in order to inspire people to work. In chapter 5 he organized a meeting to express these feelings. He presents the problems in a formal, frank way and uses his leadership in a more strick way in order for people to follow what he asks them to. This is the type of leadership that is needed for survival, making the Ralph in chapter 5 a much better one then the Ralph in chapters 1-4. Jack is, as I'd predicted, developing into a more independent person as "mankind's essential illness" infects him. Since he is already used to being a leader, in his Choir and now in the Hunters, he feels that he can do what pleases him and doesn't listen to Ralph's orders. This was only a small problem in chapters before, but it quickly escalates. Jack had expressed in previous chapters his love to hunt, so instead of keeping the fire lit, he does what he wants to do and goes hunting. Although his group is successful, Jack abandoning the fire could have lead to rescue not noticing them, as represented with the ship cruisin away into the distance. Chapters 4 and 5 represent people adapting to the environment, conflicts and a strong independence in Jack leading to potential disaster, and Ralph learning to lead in an effective manner.

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Re: Post Due Weds. 4/6

Post by Piggy is my hero on Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:08 am

pig pig pig pig pig When the boys first  got to the island they were ignorant and stupid, as well as optimistic. The boys behavior has changed since they used to always play and think people will come and revue them at the drop of a hat. Now they are facing the truth and they are using more survival skills. They build shelter hunt ect… The word to describe their knew behavior is realistic rather than idealistic which they were when they first got their. They have changed to survive because they have figured out the concept you got to what you got to do. It is outside factors that has caused them to act like this as the are young. Others are changing because they want to adapt the rules.  Jack is getting upset because he is nervous as he keeps making mistakes by letting the fire go out. So to take out his problems so he punches piggy but apologizes to everybody but piggy. Evidence is when Jack says "Im sorry. About the fire, I mean. There. I-"pigpigpigpigpig
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Respence to Prompt

Post by LORDOFLIES on Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:17 am

The boys act very differently than they did in the begining of the book. In the beging they acnowledged Ralphs authority but after a while they just stopes listening. When he talks to them about the signal fire Jack does not even listen he just keeps talking about the pig he killed. The word that I beleave would describe this behavor is savage. I beleve that they are almost devolvoing to the point that they forgot how a normal socioty will function. I believe that it is not just purly outside factors that influenced there new behavor. Jack seems like he is natrualy angere and Ralph seems like he is just a controling peoson. Only some change because some are more emotionly weak. When they are tramatized they revert to whatever makes them feel better. For Ralph it is controlling everyone. And for jack it is being angery and agressive.

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Re: Post Due Weds. 4/6

Post by Lof13 on Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:40 pm

The group when they first got on the island has changed significantly to how they act now. Ralph has gotten extremely bossy and jack seems to act more childish in my opinion.

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Re: Post Due Weds. 4/6

Post by papramuBae13 on Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:06 pm

The boys, on first contact with the island, were more or less unadapted to the island, and they had minimal idea on where the people were, and that made them scared. They were also, in a sense, more civilized and they are slowly becomin more savage-like, and losing touch with their home senses and guidelines to say 'this is normal'. This can also tie into the initial back story of the author and how he is portraying his feelings towards the war.

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Re: Post Due Weds. 4/6

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